In this episode of Block and Order, hosts Kyle and Moish sit down with Yitzy Hammer and Yarden Noy, partners at DLT Law, for a deep dive into the fast-changing world of blockchain law. They break down how shifting U.S. regulations are shaking up global markets and what that means for the future of crypto. From major legal challenges to new opportunities, this conversation is packed with expert insights. Yitzy and Yarden also reveal how networking and collaboration are shaping the industry—and why staying connected is more important than ever.

Be sure to check out Yitzy’s podcast Beyond the Code: https://linktr.ee/byndthecode

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Chapter Markers:

00:00 Welcome to Block and Order
01:45 Welcome to the Guests (Yitzy Hammer & Yarden Noy)
03:43 How was Consensus in Hong Kong?
05:45 What’s “hot” in the industry right now?
11:47 What do you see surviving from the most recent cycle of “hot” creations?
14:25 How do you navigate the regulatory challenges of transforming a crypto project with no utility into one that drives industry growth?
18:27 How do you balance regulatory uncertainty in the US with your global practice?
23:33 How do you perceive the evolving regulatory environment in the US?
30:31 Do you think being based in Israel gives you a competitive advantage in the global regulatory work you do?
37:11 What do you predict for the future of crypto banking regulations in Israel?
39:57 What have you learned from hosting ‪@byndthecode‬ and how has it affected your legal practice?
48:36 Saying Goodbye to the Guests
49:39 Closing Remarks

Watch or listen to the podcast here:

   

Transcript:

**This transcript has been prepared automatically by AI and may contain inaccuracies**

Kyle Lawrence [00:00:10]:
Welcome to Block and Order, the show that explores the legal issues facing the world of Web3 and beyond. I’m Kyle Lawrence, and with me, as always, the man, the myth, the legend. But he’s gonna have to share space with some other legends today. Mr. Moish Peltz.

Moish Peltz [00:00:23]:
Hey, Kyle. Nice to see you. That’s right. We’re inviting on Yitzy and Yarden, and it’s going to be a great conversation because they are legends of the blockchain.

Kyle Lawrence [00:00:33]:
They really are. You know, Yitzy and Yarden, we had a very spirited discussion about how they see this world evolving. You know, they’re based in Israel. We’re obviously here in the US Just the kind of interplay of. Of jurisdictional questions and how best to do these things. It’s always fascinating to hear the other perspective on how everybody. Because we have the inside view of what goes on here, and it seems crazy. And then to hear them with their view, it’s really interesting stuff.

Moish Peltz [00:00:57]:
Yeah, I love hearing the global perspective. Right. Because so much of what we do is localize, but then we’re forced to kind of project globally because nobody wanted to be in the US for the last four years versus actually being based in a global jurisdiction and having a different perspective. So some of that came out in the episode. I think some of it is just like, you know, the, the scars from, from the battles we’ve. We’ve waged together. But. But it’s.

Moish Peltz [00:01:26]:
It’s fun to talk with them. And I think we. We learned a whole lot about what they’re. What they’re up to. So.

Kyle Lawrence [00:01:31]:
Yeah, for sure. So without further ado, we’ll kick it over to them. We’ll put links to their podcast Beyond The Code in the show notes below. Please check it out and help support them. And without further ado, let’s kick it over to our discussion with Yitzy and Yarden. All right, joining us on Block and Order. We are thrilled.

Kyle Lawrence [00:01:47]:
Have Yitzy Hammer and Yarden Noy partners at DLT Law. Welcome, gentlemen. Thanks for joining us.

Yitzy Hammer [00:01:53]:
Thank you. Thank you for having us on.

Kyle Lawrence [00:01:55]:
Yarden, what do you got there? I saw you hold up a little cocktail. I’m curious as to what to drink.

Yarden Noy [00:02:00]:
I’m anxious around people, so I always make sure I have it, just in case.

Kyle Lawrence [00:02:06]:
I respect it. Moish and I always talk about doing that on the show too, but it is early in the day here and alas, we can’t do it. But you guys are in the evening, so you’re okay.

Yitzy Hammer [00:02:16]:
Yeah, I could, I could see L’Chaim Crypto being like a new podcast idea where we just, like, drink and talk.

Yarden Noy [00:02:25]:
About crypto, but that needs to be live.

Moish Peltz [00:02:30]:
We should do a live stream, you know, like, yeah, for sure, let’s do it.

Kyle Lawrence [00:02:34]:
We did kick the tires on that once, I believe, but it never came to fruition. But I’m ready.

Moish Peltz [00:02:41]:
Let’s do like an abstract live stream and start making some money with crypto for our legal streaming and that kind of thing.

Yitzy Hammer [00:02:46]:
And then we’ll just show like a memecoin, like lawcoin or something like that.

Moish Peltz [00:02:51]:
Yeah, there’s some lawcoins out there.

Kyle Lawrence [00:02:53]:
There’s a couple.

Yitzy Hammer [00:02:54]:
Are there?

Moish Peltz [00:02:55]:
Have you guys ever considered dropping a lawcoin?

Yitzy Hammer [00:02:59]:
I don’t think we’ve considered dropping a lawcoin, but you know, Moish, that back in the day, I did launch a legal services wrapped in an NFT with like, I think, you know, because I think we talked about it at some point with like, I made little, like apes representing each, each product. You could actually, I think it’s still available online, though nobody full disclosure has ever bought one, so.

Moish Peltz [00:03:26]:
See, that’s the trick. We did a client appreciation NFT which got written up in, like, Above The Law or whatever. And with the trick is you have to, like, send it to people.

Yitzy Hammer [00:03:36]:
That’s where it gets complicated when you actually have to do something. Yeah, yeah.

Kyle Lawrence [00:03:41]:
Oh, it’s the obstacle. Well, gentlemen, I understand that you were just at Consensus in Hong Kong, and while I was not in attendance, I saw you were there and was very jealous. Why don’t you tell me a little bit about how your experience was? How are the vibes? Who’d you see that was, you know, really hitting the mark? Who was off base?

Yitzy Hammer [00:03:58]:
Tell me, Yarden, you take it, man.

Yarden Noy [00:04:01]:
I did not see much. I saw, like, do we. We were hard at work, right? We, we, we sponsored Consensus. So we had a booth there. So we had to man the booth. We were like all three partners, plus additional, you know, workforce there. And, and Yitzy managed it like a big boss. The big boss that he is, like, I, I, I had to ask him for, like, permission to go smoke, go to the bathroom.

Yarden Noy [00:04:33]:
So I, I, I hear, I heard the panels, the panels were good. Look, the atmosphere was great. The event itself, it’s their first time, I’ll give them that. It’s their first time like, outside the U.S. I believe, right? So, like, organizational wise, they, they’re working on it. We talked to the team. They’re working on. It’s the first time.

Yarden Noy [00:04:54]:
It’s never perfect. I don’t know, first runner up. But people like from all over the industry and all over the world. Hong Kong is generally speaking like it’s a huge hub for, you know, Eastern Asia and. And globally. Right? So we saw people from all over the world, friends, clients, partners coming in from really all over. We saw less, you know, memecoins and just random hype kind of projects. And guess, you know, I guess, you know, the market down 9%.

Yarden Noy [00:05:24]:
You know, they all get back to their holes. It’s all about the market sentiment. But the speakers were good. I hear overall attendance pretty impressive.

Kyle Lawrence [00:05:34]:
That’s good.

Yarden Noy [00:05:34]:
Like all the who’s in who’s great side events and parties, really great. That, that was when I didn’t need permission to take a break. So that worked for me too.

Moish Peltz [00:05:45]:
Well, it’s interesting that you mentioned that the, the, I guess the memecoin and like some of that other that that seemed to be down and there was so like what. What seems elevated now? What’s hot now? What are people trying to build? What are. What are people looking for?

Yitzy Hammer [00:06:00]:
AI agents, legal advice around AI agents, seem to be the new memecoin. Everybody’s working on some AI bullshit. Excuse my French. I’ll just add on top of what Yarden already said, he’s generally much more perceptive and smarter than I am. However, I do not agree with his analysis of Consensus. I think it was like a pretty shitty event for our purposes as service providers. It was rocking. Okay, there aren’t that many service providers there and so like everybody’s a potential client.

Yitzy Hammer [00:06:37]:
And so we had, you know, our booth was very well located. You came in, it was like the first thing that you saw and there was nobody who walked in there that didn’t chat with us first. So like as an investment from a law firm perspective, definitely worthwhile. I think there was still something like 8,000 people that were there. But it was nothing like Token 249 Singapore, Singapore, which had like 20 at the conference and like another 40 that were there because they had Solana, Break, whatever it’s called Breakpoint. So this was much more low key on the organization side. It was, it was lacking. But then again, I think it’s because it was their first time outside of the US and the team were like very keen to try and make everybody happy.

Yitzy Hammer [00:07:15]:
But like the general sentiment was, I don’t know how to say this, like in, in. In kosher, you have like meat, milk and then pareve, which is like neither nor. Neither or. So it was very pareve. It was just like it was like, you know, like.

Kyle Lawrence [00:07:34]:
Yeah.

Yitzy Hammer [00:07:34]:
And I think it probably has to do with the market sentiment because usually these events somehow magically are either around like a colossal like fuck up, like FTX or whatever or when bitcoin is reaching an all time high. And here bitcoin price was like, am I here, am I there? And like people’s sentiments are probably the same. I think it’s generally a good way to read people’s sentiments in the market. Just open up CMC and take a look at what bitcoin is trading at today. So that’s, that’s as far as the market was concerned. But there’s definitely a maturation in that. Like we didn’t see all those like shit coiners and stuff. Yeah.

Kyle Lawrence [00:08:15]:
So that’s good.

Yitzy Hammer [00:08:17]:
What did we see? I think what we were seeing was.

Moish Peltz [00:08:19]:
Like a pareve market. Yeah.

Yitzy Hammer [00:08:21]:
You know there was like this saying or there is a saying like all through the, all through the bear, like what are you doing? Like, I’m building in a bear, man. I’m building in a bear. Like people are like, you know, like we’re just trying to make it through to the other side. And it sounds like this like annoying mantra that people say again and again, again. But now I, I think we’re like actually seeing the results of it all the people that were building in a bear have.

Yarden Noy [00:08:44]:
Now that’s where the value is. These are people who believe these are.

Yitzy Hammer [00:08:49]:
The clients you want to have.

Yarden Noy [00:08:51]:
Exactly.

Kyle Lawrence [00:08:51]:
Yeah, exactly.

Yitzy Hammer [00:08:52]:
These are the guys who were building in a bear, came out on the other side and now they’re still riding their previous investment round. But when they’re coming to look at new investments now, they already generally have like a viable product. Their team is leaner and meaner because they had to survive throughout this long bear market. And when they go fundraising again, they’re going to be a lot more attractive than like the new whatever hype is on the market.

Kyle Lawrence [00:09:22]:
So yeah, that’s a great point. I felt the same way after when Moish and I had formed this practice group a couple years ago. It was kind of during the NFT boom and everybody was just could make all the money that they wanted and we’re doing a 10,000 pfp. What are you going to do with the money? I don’t know. We’ll figure it out. Once that subsided. Yitzy, you hit the nail on the head. It’s people who are much more serious about a long term play.

Kyle Lawrence [00:09:43]:
People who, who understand the tech and understand its use case and, and it’s kind of coalesces with the fact that memecoins are dying out and weren’t part of what you saw Yarden. Because you know, memecoins are, let’s call it what they are. They’re bullshit. They’re, you know, especially now a couple weeks ago is great, but now that that wave is over. So let’s get that out of the way, let’s get the riff raff out of here and let’s build something real like AI agents. Let’s do it.

Yarden Noy [00:10:07]:
So, so that was actually like one conversation that I had over and over again with, with people. I, you know, I think memecoins are, you know, it’s not that they were great two months ago. It’s. They were same. They just made a lot of money. They were profitable doing, doing memecoins, et cetera. No offense, memecoins, you know, serve their, you know, their part. But that’s exactly the point.

Yarden Noy [00:10:30]:
That’s part of the maturation of the market. You had the same again there were like NFT projects that were valuable, right. And that was part of the maturation of the market. A lot of it, like a big portion of it was bullshit. And before that, if you guys remember like the, the, the bull run of 2017, 2018, 90% was bullshit the 10% remain, right. So it’s the same sort of cycle over and over again. The, the the bullshit transforms into something new everytime, right? So it will happen again now with AI or next we’ll run who knows with what. But it’s the same, same concept.

Yarden Noy [00:11:11]:
And then 90% of the new hype bullshit dies out 10 remains and changes something. Right? So from, as an industry, right. In the same, you can, you can see pretty much the same going on with, with exchanges and wallets etc. There are you know, products and, and, and, and protocols that ride that wave and eventually die out next round or, or the one after that. And, and the core remains, right. And get stronger with the next pool. So it all, it all connects to like the cycles are not just about the price, but that’s part of the whole.

Moish Peltz [00:11:47]:
I agree and I, I think it’s not even just crypto, right. I think if you look at just venture tech and you look at you know, Y Combinator and you look at the, the percentages and the hit rates and it’s you know, 90/10, right. Something like that. So I think that’s just part of the industry we’re in. But I’m curious what you see. Yeah, we also have clients that are doing the memecoins and there’s, you know, memecoins as whatever that means to someone, I think just like NFTs can mean a very wide range of things and some can be just for fun and some can be just for making money and some can be for creating something that unlocks. So like, what do you see surviving from this, from this cycle from I guess up to now? This, this, like there’s a memecoin. I think there have been some interesting ideas.

Moish Peltz [00:12:35]:
I think some memecoins have evolved into something else. Whether it’s really a utility token or something else that, or a protocol or an AI, something in disguise, or they kind of backed into that once they raised the money. Like, well, now what do we do?

Yarden Noy [00:12:50]:
Exactly.

Moish Peltz [00:12:50]:
So I mean. Yeah, so I think that’s the fun part, right?

Yarden Noy [00:12:54]:
That depends mostly, I guess. Or it’s that, that depends mostly on the team, I guess. Right. So you can, you can imagine sitting in that room or that garage with three guys, right? It no longer happens in garages, right. There’s a room with three guys. Okay, we raised all this money, now what do we do with it? Like so some of them will take it home and go about their day, but many or some others would build something with it, right. And transform the memecoin into a utility or, or, or into a product. You know, we have all this money and apparently people in the community believes in us.

Yarden Noy [00:13:31]:
Let’s try it out. If it doesn’t work, you know, no harm, no foul, we didn’t promise anything to anyone. The coin still remains out there, right. So you never know what will stay and what will catch either, you know, in terms of a product I’m looking at when, and you know, when I talk shit about memecoins, it’s mostly from, from the macro perspective of how does that promote the industry. Right. I, I believe in the tech and I believe in the, in the ecosystem at large. Right. And there are things that promote the tech, the use cases, et cetera, and the community and the, and the, the crypto world, the blockchain world.

Yarden Noy [00:14:10]:
And there are those who ride the waves, right? So you never know. Both, both can succeed and stay. You never know how things evolve pricing wise or, you know, sudden products coming out of it.

Moish Peltz [00:14:25]:
So how do you guys think about, you know, being global regulatory attorneys? The idea that there’s, there’s a group of founders, they sold a memecoin, they made a bunch of money, now they’re sitting around in their virtual garage and they’re saying, okay, we want to evolve into something that actually has utility that actually promotes the industry. That actually something people like. How do you think about the regulatory approach to coming in midstream there and saying, okay, now we’re going to do something interesting. But there isn’t really a playbook for how you convert a memecoin that had no expectation, no promises of appreciation, no utility promised. And now we’re going to convert that into something that does. Hey, Yarden. Hey, Yitzy. Can you help us think through the legal ramifications of that? How do you approach that question?

Yitzy Hammer [00:15:14]:
It’s not a theoretical question. It’s the kind of thing that we do quite often.

Yarden Noy [00:15:19]:
Very practical one.

Kyle Lawrence [00:15:20]:
He led you into that. Yeah.

Yitzy Hammer [00:15:23]:
It’s not as hard to do as you may think. First of all, just going back to what you said previously, I think, like, what’s. What’s going to be left when all this is over? Like, I feel like there’s going to be a graveyard of foundations, just like tons of unnecessary companies that were open. Nobody ever did anything with and

Yarden Noy [00:15:44]:
Unwinding though, oh my God.

Yitzy Hammer [00:15:45]:
And they needed to leave a machine. Such a headache immediately, you know, like, you had to get it at any cost possible. I had to be set up within three weeks and then nobody ever touched it ever again. A bunch of agreements were entered into with the foundation as a. As a counterparty. And then at some point next year, the agent is going to knock on our door and be like, hey, can you just ping the client that asked them to pay the registration fees for another year on these 150 companies? They’re gonna be like, don’t know where those guys are.

Kyle Lawrence [00:16:12]:
Well, I can ping them. You know, we need a secondary market.

Yitzy Hammer [00:16:15]:
You can ping them. But they weren’t docs, so you don’t actually know who they are, where they are.

Kyle Lawrence [00:16:18]:
Exactly. Yeah. Right.

Yitzy Hammer [00:16:21]:
So, yeah, there’s gonna be a lot of that. But, you know, ostensibly, another. Another great thing about memecoins, like when you ask her, like, what’s the next stage where this is going? Like, what’s going to be left? It’s a meme, right? Like, it’s not supposed to mean anything. It’s not supposed to have anything. It’s supposed to just be like a collective idea. And I think, you know, you could. You saw this after the NFT craze or you had like, literally, I don’t know, like 800 mints a day at some point.

Kyle Lawrence [00:16:47]:
Yeah.

Yitzy Hammer [00:16:48]:
What you have left afterwards, because nobody gives a shit about most of the art, is like some solid communities.

Yarden Noy [00:16:55]:
Right.

Yitzy Hammer [00:16:55]:
Like the people who like came together around this idea, they got excited when they fomoed into it, and then they got excited when they were rugged afterwards. And they, you know, they bonded over that shit. So you have these, like, really rich and strong communities. So that’s like, one asset that’s going to be there regardless. And, like, maybe the community will spur on an idea and they’ll do something with it. And maybe not. Maybe the people go somewhere, maybe not. But the founders or the guys who launched.

Yitzy Hammer [00:17:21]:
I don’t like to use the word founders because they didn’t really found anything, but the guys who launched this product and now have all this cash sitting in their pocket and they want to do something else with it, I don’t really see an issue with that. As long as we’re able to color in how they came to get a hold in the money. As long as everything is done above board. Maybe ethically, there are some issues here. Again, I’m not judging currently, like, whether it’s the right thing or not, but as long as legally they were able to obtain the money in a, In a. In a proper way, whatever you want to do next with it, like, let’s plan it out, figure it out, structure it appropriately and run with it. Did I answer your question?

Yarden Noy [00:18:02]:
He asked about the regulation. I like the way he did a 360 round without touching regulation.

Yitzy Hammer [00:18:07]:
I did a. Did a weave like Trump.

Yarden Noy [00:18:11]:
Yeah.

Kyle Lawrence [00:18:12]:
What’s the expression? A lawyer can’t change its stripes. I think you answered it perfectly. You can charge people for that, too. You know, it’s something we bump up against here in the United States because. And Moish and I have talked about it on this show, and we talk, we tell clients the same thing. It’s that leading up to the election, you couldn’t do anything because the SEC was going to be there like a sort of Damocles. No matter what you did, they were going to come down on you. And then after the election, everybody’s like, well, we can just kind of do whatever we want.

Yarden Noy [00:18:37]:
And crime is legal now, gentlemen.

Moish Peltz [00:18:39]:
As long as it’s not fraud.

Yitzy Hammer [00:18:40]:
If the president’s doing it, then it’s.

Moish Peltz [00:18:42]:
Like, oh, maybe crime is legal. Okay. Right.

Kyle Lawrence [00:18:44]:
But we’re still seeing a lot of these coins come out, and people are promoting them on Twitter. You have KOLs talking about them. You know, how do you guys balance that as part of your practice? You’re not based in the United States, so the laws are a little different.

Yitzy Hammer [00:18:55]:
Maybe.

Kyle Lawrence [00:18:56]:
Maybe you actually have laws. How do you balance that with people who are coming to you saying I want to do this. Walk me through it.

Yarden Noy [00:19:02]:
Yeah. So you mentioned our practice and what makes our practice unique is A, we do only blockchain and B, we work on a global basis. Right. So we’re jurisdiction agnostic and we operate globally. So. And everyone all over the world like looks up or down or wherever, you know, whichever direction you want to choose. Like looking at the US because A, that’s one of the biggest markets that everyone wants to be in, both retail, institutional credit, investors, et cetera. But also we, we all know that regulators are looking to, you know, U.S.

Yarden Noy [00:19:38]:
regulators, see what will happen, what will come out and you know, let’s wait and see. And that’s, by the way, that’s very much the case in Israel. Right. So in Israel it’s like, let’s, let’s wait and like remain kind of undecided on the, especially on the security side. Let’s wait and see how it plays out in the, in the, in the US and in Israel we don’t have like where, what tokens, you know, are or might be considered as security. In Israel, like same. Same as in the US pre-election. Right.

Yarden Noy [00:20:12]:
Everything could potentially at least be viewed by the Israeli Securities Authority as a security. So everyone’s looking at the US regardless of where they are. And I guess every lawyer in the world does crypto can talk about, you know, their jurisdiction and the US right. That’s the news. That’s that these are the biggest issues. So the changes now are mind blowing. Right. And I have to, like.

Yarden Noy [00:20:46]:
I don’t.

Yarden Noy [00:20:46]:
Even know what to say. I was very skeptical about this administration’s pre election and post elections, like in terms of actually delivering on the expectation. And you know, I was wrong partly my, my political bias. But that aside, as a crypto lawyer and, and trying to predict the future, I was very wrong about that. I still don’t think that the Howey Test and the existing securities laws in the US Are going to go away. They are going to be read differently, interpreted differently and applied differently. Plus with the task force now, now led by Commissioner Pierce, was the guest on. Can I promote another podcast on your podcast? Is that please.

Yarden Noy [00:21:37]:
So, so Yitzy here.

Yitzy Hammer [00:21:38]:
She was also a guest on Block and Order, by the way.

Moish Peltz [00:21:39]:
We had a whole series of questions what we were going to start diving into on the show.

Yarden Noy [00:21:42]:
Yeah, she was like an amazing episode and an amazing guest and you know, she’s, she’s been a lighthouse for everyone, you know, watching that, you know, what’s going on in the US for years now. Right. And, and her descents were like the, the best materials to read like ever. So, so, so the changes are real. And you’ve seen that like over the, the past week the SEC has withdrawn like active law cases and said and, and, and are not going to pursue the, the appeals where they lost like these are real thing.

Moish Peltz [00:22:20]:
And, and they, yesterday they dropped the Robinhood case. Coinbase one was dropped all the market participants. It’s, it’s totally 180 from what it was, you know, two months ago.

Yarden Noy [00:22:31]:
Yep. And, and, and that’s, you know, give that to the administration, give that to the new chair and, and like really like full respect. And, and you really now expect Commissioner Pierce’s task force to deliver on actual clarity now? She, she’s now asking for, for a consultation from the public. I don’t think she knows like what she’s into like every

Kyle Lawrence [00:22:58]:
I think she does, yeah.

Yarden Noy [00:22:59]:
The amount of material she’s going to get is like going to be insane. But she like now like the SEC staff is off all these cases. So they, she has all, all these free hands like to read these, these, these consultation replies. Right. So something is going to come out of like. Yeah, I think by now, by now it’s a, it’s a reasonable expectation to see like real rules and clear rules, which is what the industry has been asking for since 2017, since it outpost.

Yarden Noy [00:23:33]:
Right.

Moish Peltz [00:23:33]:
So, so the, the follow up question to that is how does that impact, you know, you guys being in Israel and taking a more global regulatory viewpoint versus because you have to know the law of, of non US and the law of US. And so this is only one aspect of that. So does that just you just kind of warp onto. Well, Commissioner Peirce is saying all the right things. So I’ll just kind of. The optimistic viewpoint of that. Or, or is it more complicated?

Yitzy Hammer [00:24:01]:
It’s a great question. Let me first, let me just clarify. When you say that we’re a global law firm, I just want to explain what that means because typically when you meet somebody and you tell them and they’re like where do you practice law? And we’re like, oh, we’re jurisdiction agnostic. We provide global legal and regulatory services everywhere on the globe. They’re like, all right, get out of town. Right. So let me just explain how that actually could even be a thing. So my partners and I are, you know, Yarden and I are licensed to practice law in, in the state of Israel.

Yitzy Hammer [00:24:35]:
Okay. That being said, we hardly do any work inside of Israel at all and 90% of our clients have no nexus even to Israel. So what do we do we only do crypto? Okay, by nature, and you guys know this, but by nature of these products being, you know, most of them decentralized and just engaging with decentralized protocols, you’re by default exposed to multiple regulatory frameworks. So either you need to hire lawyers like in a million places, and then you’re constantly like second guessing yourself, like, do I need a higher lawyer here? Do I need a higher lawyer there? Am I overpaying this guy? Am I underpaying this guy? You know, this guy said I should be doing this, but the other guy said, so we make that much easier. Okay, I do not. But Yarden knows the regular is, you know, he’s well versed in the regulatory framework for crypto everywhere. Okay. Even in like the random countries that I’ve never even heard of.

Yitzy Hammer [00:25:25]:
Okay. And I just had a question.

Yarden Noy [00:25:28]:
Sorry to interrupt.

Yitzy Hammer [00:25:29]:
No, no, no, no, you can’t interrupt. No, I’m getting to the end of my page.

Yarden Noy [00:25:33]:
Sorry.

Yitzy Hammer [00:25:34]:
And that and that, and that allows us to come in and look at the clients, like, product, look at their, like where their team, their founding team is, where their users are, where their investors are, and like what products they plan on rolling out. And based on that, helping them structure, you know, the optimal corporate structure from a tax and regulatory perspective. And also just set up like a regulatory strategy. And then, okay, we engage with, and this is coming to your, to answer your question now, we engage with local partners in every jurisdiction, in relevant jurisdictions to, to be boots on the ground and do the work. But we’ll act as like a product manager, what we call like GC, as a service, so that the client doesn’t have to engage directly with all these people and have all these duplicative sets of work and advices that conflict with one another. We’ll just manage their whole, like, legal and regulatory ops for their, for their, for their crypto business. And to your question of like, what, how this is all going to change now? What I think is that we’re going to be working with our US Partners, Moish and Kyle, a lot, a lot more. Okay.

Yitzy Hammer [00:26:39]:
And we’re looking to strengthen the relationship with those US Partners because until now the majority, like most of our work, has been working both with US clients and non US clients and structuring their products in such a way that they’re not exposed to the US Regulatory regime. And now it’s going to, they don’t need to run. You’re going to have people that are going to say like, yay, the SEC is putting out clear guidelines. We want to jump in, into the U.S. how do we do that? And you’re going to have people that, you know, have been blocking US consumers. So how do I unblock, like, the floodgates are going to be open and there’s going to be a lot more work and synchronization. People are going to be wanting to open it, open up entities in the US and, and, and hire people in the US and it’s just going to be like a whole new renaissance of crypto. And that, I believe, is the end of my weave.

Yarden Noy [00:27:29]:
Yeah, that’s going to be great for the economy on top of everything. But just, just, just to make it practical for one second, just imagine the client or the potential client that comes to you and telling you, look, I’m building this, this, this and that. And like, where do I set up? Right? I need a company or a foundation or whatever, where do I set up, right? So US lawyers know by now, no, you had no choice, right? You know, Cayman, DBI, etc. We look at, you know, we, we dig into the product, what they need and we, you know, you can set up in Cayman, you can set up in DBI, you can set up in Panama, you can set up in Europe, you can set up in, in the UAE. These are the pros and cons of, of, of each. Right? And now we can also say you can also set up in the U.S. right? And you can have, you can have DAOs in the US now, right? In Wyoming, Wisconsin, with few states. Yeah.

Yarden Noy [00:28:26]:
So that’s another option that is on the map. And for US founders, that’s like, instead of saying I need to set up, like, what are my options outside of the US they would be like, what are my options in the US versus outside of the US Right? So that adds work for us and for you guys, but a lot of opportunities and setting a lot of headaches. Some of them might still choose to operate offshore for other reasons, but that would be, that would be great for the US economy first, but for the industry at large.

Moish Peltz [00:29:02]:
I agree completely. And I love your perspective on this as the non US Council seeing that happening. And from our perspective, we’ve been begging for something like this to happen now for years. And to see it happen and to see folks like you recognize the benefits of that which are obvious to us just speaks really loudly to the changes that are happening here.

Yarden Noy [00:29:23]:
Yeah, sorry Moish, like one last or one comment on that? Like I said before, crime is legal now with the pardons and the President doing whatever they want. I just want to make it clear for our, you know, for everyone doing building, selling, anything in the industry, globally and in the U.S. please note that this is not the case, right? It’s not that you can do whatever you want, right? So first, you know, fraud, manipulation, etc. Still, like, please don’t do that. Also, like, if you sell things that are securities and were securities before and will continue to be securities, they will continue to be securities, right? That doesn’t change. Security tokens remain a thing. Right. It’s just there is now a lighter grays out of this or even white.

Yarden Noy [00:30:16]:
Maybe one day we’ll have white.

Kyle Lawrence [00:30:19]:
You’ve echoed something that we’ve been saying to our clients for months now. It’s like, yes, the vibes are better. You still can’t commit fraud. So thank you for synthesizing it much more eloquently than I often do.

Moish Peltz [00:30:31]:
I, I have another question, which is, you know, Israel is the startup nation. There’s a lot of tech that happens there. How much do you guys perceive, you know, being based in Israel as a competitive advantage and enabling you to do the global regulatory work that you’re, that you’re talking about?

Yitzy Hammer [00:30:52]:
So it’s, it’s a bit of an issue. The Israel is a startup nation. There is so much tech and development that comes out of Israel and it’s no different in blockchain. Somebody once told me this statistic that 20% of all blockchain products are built in Israel. Now, I don’t know, it could be from a market cap perspective, maybe that’s true, but there definitely is a very strong development ecosystem here. We have some huge companies, we have Fireblocks is Israeli and we have, you know, just like some big names in the market. Celsius, may it rest in peace, was an Israeli company. Vitalik came up with the idea for Ethereum when he was working at an Israeli company called Color Coins, together with Yoni Asia, who is the founder of Etoro, which has a strong crypto, some strong crypto products.

Yitzy Hammer [00:31:50]:
So like, there’s been a lot of development coming out of Israel. That being said, Israel is not a good place to build from a crypto. Like nobody’s building for the ecosystem in Israel. Everybody’s building out for outside of Israel for the same reason that Yarden mentioned previously that it because of you guys. Basically because the SEC has not been forthcoming with guidelines Israel. The Israeli regulators have just been like, oh, the SEC is not doing it, I’m not doing it. And so there are no clear guidelines in Israel. In Fact, it’s so bad.

Yitzy Hammer [00:32:20]:
We have four regulators, we have the tax authority and we have the AML authority and we have the securities and we have the banking. The banking. Right. So all these four regulators have complete almost opposite opinions as to how you need to engage with crypto products. And so the ultimate gatekeeper, the banks have said like, no, no, no, like no crypto at all, like in, under any circumstance, kosher, not kosher, white, black, no crypto.

Yitzy Hammer [00:32:54]:
Why? Because the banks say, and I’ve heard them say it like in many local events here you have like the compliance officers, the banks come and say, listen, we’re a for profit company. Like we don’t do this for fun, okay? I’m not going to like take the risk of taking of banking your crypto and then getting a knock on the door by one of the regulators and tell me you have like several hundred million dollars fine because you went against our regulations. But I was going, you know, I was doing what the other regulator was telling me, but, but that regular was telling me something else. So like he’s like. And they typically have these panels at like every crypto event here where you have the compliance officers for the banks and you have representatives of each regulator and they just look at each other and they yell at each other and like, nothing changes. And they all in the end say like, let’s wait for the US so.

Yarden Noy [00:33:39]:
They’re good people and they mean well.

Yitzy Hammer [00:33:41]:
They are good people and they mean well. It’s, it’s, it’s, I, I blame Gary for everything. So hopefully now with like clarity coming from the US there will be clarity in Israel. Maybe we’ll be able to, you know, bank crypto here more easily. But going answering your question, like having been exposed to so much tech and innovation for so long from a legal side, I mean I like my background for the last 10 years was working in like a high tech department here in Israel where you’re seeing like insane deal flow and tons of innovation and ideas. And like Yarden and Shmuel who were part of the financial regulation department saw like, I don’t know, like five ICOs a week during like the ICO boom. Like and like this is stuff coming out of Israel. So like, yeah, we’ve definitely get exposed to a tremendous amount of deal flow and it’s helped us like mature and take a different, I guess kind of like an Israeli approach to how to tackle this whole thing.

Yitzy Hammer [00:34:43]:
Because we see anybody doing it the way we’re doing it.

Yarden Noy [00:34:45]:
We don’t see like that’s actually a very good question. So the way we work very much like follows the way the industry like the crypto industry in Israel works which you know, follows a tradition of how Israeli tech generally works. Like there, there are many projects outside of crypto even, right? Just tech projects and R&D being developed in Israel and sold abroad, right? So you see that in M&As and you see the services and products being sold abroad. Israel is a small market, right? Retail retail wise and financial like as a general financial hub, right? It’s a huge tech hub, right. So in the general tech industry and even like in agrotech and, and, and and you know, even if, if you go back to like low tech we invent very rarely manufacture and, and the vast majority of, of things developed here are solo, right. So in the crypto industry it’s even more so because of regulatory and banking etc and again because the market here is small is you know, control the, the, the banking. It’s, it’s a long story. We can do a, a separate episode about you know, why the industry, why the Israeli industries and, and, and the financial industry is built the way it is.

Yarden Noy [00:36:15]:
Right? So in, in the crypto industry, everyone building, developing here, sell abroad retail facing projects and, and, and protocols. Most of them like the ones who operate out of Israel, most of them say just it let’s just block Israel, right? We, it’s not worth right getting through the, jumping through the regulatory hoops for this small of a market, right? For. So for the US you want to jump through the hoops because it’s a huge, it’s like big market, right? It’s worth it in Israel it’s just not so so they build with always like an eye out to the world and that’s how we operated like advising tech companies then crypto companies. And like this is what they need. They build here but they need to look at where they’re selling to. That’s how we started developing the way we operate. We took that to the next level.

Kyle Lawrence [00:37:11]:
Given what you were talking about and how Israel follows the US in terms of regulatory approvals and just moving forward in general, given that the US has finally and mercifully struck down SAB121. Is there any scuttlebutt in Israel about those banking regulations following suit? Because that was a terrible statute that we had here. I don’t need to delve into the specifics of it but has that resulted in any thawing that you’re seeing at the banking level?

Yarden Noy [00:37:38]:
So, so you see a lot of I Don’t think anyone here even thinks, you know, or expects there to be some sort of like crypto banking in Israel Any, any anytime soon.

Kyle Lawrence [00:37:54]:
Yeah.

Yarden Noy [00:37:55]:
Right. And, and it goes again to, to, to that the issue that Israeli, you know, the financial. There are like five or six big banks that control everything. It’s not like the US where you know, a new bank can emerge or even Europe with new banks, et cetera.

Moish Peltz [00:38:11]:
In the US for what, 10 years, 20 years, something like that?

Yarden Noy [00:38:15]:
Yeah. So we, we’ve had one like, like an online kind of Neo. I think it’s more of branding thing that it’s a new bank. Right. It’s not really like in Europe you have, you know, Neobanks and tech banks and online banks, but we haven’t had one other than that we haven’t had one in 50.

Yitzy Hammer [00:38:35]:
Right.

Yarden Noy [00:38:35]:
So they’re all super traditional and five or six players control the entire market. They’re the biggest, the banks are the biggest, biggest companies, like on the Israeli stock exchange. It’s, it’s, it’s. I don’t think anyone really expects that to happen. We’re just praying for banks to, to actually bank crypto options.

Kyle Lawrence [00:38:56]:
Sure.

Yarden Noy [00:38:57]:
That that’s our biggest hope right now. So we’re not even, you know, we’re not even remotely there yet, but we’ll see.

Yitzy Hammer [00:39:07]:
But we can hope.

Moish Peltz [00:39:08]:
Yeah, no, but I think that’s, that’s gives you such a unique perspective of. Well, you’re not really building for the local market. You’re building for the global regulatory market. And you’re building for, you know, even a potential acquisition or M&A, but not necessarily even in the US So you have to kind of game plan and make your.

Yitzy Hammer [00:39:26]:
Exactly.

Moish Peltz [00:39:26]:
Company, your clients bulletproof to survive that kind of global. It makes a ton of sense. Like, that’s, that’s amazing. That’s not, that’s not a perspective that we have. Right. Because we’re like, we’re very US Heavy. We’re thinking about the SEC and we have to think about the other jurisdictions where it’d be better than here because it was so crappy here for so long. But, but now that that’s starting to thaw it, it gives us a very, I think, different and more localized approach than, than someone in your shoes.

Moish Peltz [00:39:51]:
So I think that’s fascinating. It’s one of the things we love working with you guys on. So very cool. I have a question for Yitzy, which is, you know, I was very lucky to have had the opportunity to be a guest on Beyond The Code, which Yarden mentioned as your podcast and, and great podcast. I’ve listened to a bunch of episodes. You know, it’s funny because we. We talked about how we’ve also had some overlap in terms of guests, like Commissioner Peirce and some other guests. I’m curious, you know, without, you know, to the extent you want to name names or.

Moish Peltz [00:40:25]:
Or however much detail you want to go into, you know, what. What are the. The coolest things you’ve learned, you know, while hosting the podcast, and who have your, you know, favorite guests been, you know, while hosting the podcast? And. And what do you think about? Just generally, that’s kind of a loaded question about, like, the podcast, but then in, like, sitting next to you as a lawyer and having a legal practice and, and all those things.

Yitzy Hammer [00:40:50]:
Great question. A lot of questions there. So I got.

Moish Peltz [00:40:53]:
Answer however you want. I’m just curious like, how used. How you as a podcaster, what. What you. What your thinking is.

Yitzy Hammer [00:41:01]:
So, first of all, I love the podcast. Like, I have a lot of fun with it. I don’t have me a Shaun. I do it all on my own. Okay. I do like the scheduling, the editing, the distribution. I’m. I am actually looking to hire somebody now, but more to do, like, just kind of to just like, create lots more content.

Yitzy Hammer [00:41:22]:
And like, I want to start a TikTok channel, but I don’t even know where TikTok is. I don’t, like, I’m so old, I don’t even have Instagram.

Kyle Lawrence [00:41:30]:
Is TikTok legal these days?

Kyle Lawrence [00:41:31]:
I don’t even know.

Moish Peltz [00:41:32]:
Can you let us know?

Yitzy Hammer [00:41:36]:
Yeah. So it’s. It’s a. It’s a lot of fun, and I’ve learned a ton along the journey. I didn’t even know what the heck I was doing when I started. I remember, like, a long time ago when I was just getting into, like, crypto law, and I wanted to learn more about it. Like, I didn’t have anywhere to turn to. And then the only resource that I had available was Jacob Robinson’s Law of Code.

Yitzy Hammer [00:42:01]:
Is that what it’s called? Law and Code of Law. Law. Something like that. What’s it called?

Moish Peltz [00:42:05]:
Law of Code.

Yitzy Hammer [00:42:07]:
It doesn’t actually. He doesn’t do it anymore. But yeah, for a while it was like, it was a great podcast.

Moish Peltz [00:42:12]:
Now it has the little like. Like, it’s asleep button.

Yitzy Hammer [00:42:14]:
Yeah.

Moish Peltz [00:42:15]:
That’s sad.

Yitzy Hammer [00:42:16]:
Yeah.

Moish Peltz [00:42:17]:
You should have Jacob. We should do a podcast with Jacob and catch up with him.

Yitzy Hammer [00:42:20]:
Jacob’s awesome. I actually had him on as an opportunity just to, like, thank him. So he was. He was like. It was really Insightful to have this, like, resource where I can go to and I could learn so much about the legal side of things. And he was just kind of interviewing legal professionals. And I wanted to, in the blockchain space, I wanted to, like, run the scope a little bit because, like, I really love crypto. But I wasn’t only interested in crypto.

Yitzy Hammer [00:42:48]:
I’m interested in, like, emerging tech generally. Like, I know AI is a buzzword, and I hate that it’s become a buzzword. But, like, I also love it. Not that it’s a buzzword. I love AI. So, like, from time to time, like, I’ll veer off of the, like, strictly crypto guests and I’ll go into AI or privacy or other things like that. So, like, strictly speaking, it’s an emerging tech podcast, but, like, 90% of the guests have been crypto related.

Yarden Noy [00:43:16]:
Ride the high. Yeah.

Moish Peltz [00:43:20]:
Clicks, man.

Yitzy Hammer [00:43:21]:
Yeah, that’s what I’ve learned. Like, I’ve learned so much about people, like, about, like, about engaging with people. Like, there are some, some people that I want to invite to the podcast. And like, I have like, imposter syndrome. Or like, if. If I ask this guy to come and join me as a guest, like, there’s no way that he’s gonna say yes. Right? Like, Pierce is an easy one. Like, but there, there are other people as well.

Yitzy Hammer [00:43:45]:
And sometimes I’m actually, like, like, actually really surprised. Like, I have a guest coming on in the next couple of weeks. Like, I’m really, really excited about, like, just somebody with like, a very, very cool story that, like, I’m really, really keen to. To share and just somebody that, like, I’m, like, really interested in that I’m like, I’m just excited. The opportunity to get on a, on a call with them. And, and when we went just now in Consensus, I got this random email from this guy, like, three weeks before the conference. He said that he bought the rights perpetually to all the paper in fortune cookies ever. Okay.

Yitzy Hammer [00:44:27]:
So, like, like, there’s. He’s distributed all the. All. All the fortune cookies distributed in 30 countries worldwide. He owns the paper inside and so, like, advertising rights on that paper.

Kyle Lawrence [00:44:41]:
Wow.

Yitzy Hammer [00:44:41]:
And like, his first one of his first deals was like, with FTX. Anyways, he sent me this email and he’s like, I woke up late and there’s no more room at consensus. And I would like to come and like, sublet from you a portion of your booth. And then I want to like, live broadcast for my podcast, like my, my fortune cookie podcast, whatever, from your booth, and I ran the idea by Yarden, and Shmuel. They’re like, no, no. Like, we. We need all the space we can get. And then.

Yitzy Hammer [00:45:09]:
So I told him no. But then I was thinking, like, this is a great idea. I want to. I think I end up, like, live broadcast Beyond The Code from. From the. From the booth. And I started reaching out to some, like, founders who I thought would be interesting to. To interview.

Yitzy Hammer [00:45:23]:
And, like, that’s when, like, I realized how brilliant this. This whole thing is. Like, I didn’t do it from a business perspective. And people always ask me, like, you make money from your podcast? Like, no, I don’t. It cost me a lot of money and a lot of time. But, like, I don’t directly make money, but, like, there’s no question that, like, indirectly I gain a tremendous amount of value from the podcast. Like, there’s. There’s a few things.

Yitzy Hammer [00:45:47]:
Like, number one, there’s, like, success by association. Like, people assume that, like, if you associate yourself with successful people, then you must be successful as well. And, like, if you’re associated with famous people, then you must be famous as well. That’s not to say that I’m not, like, a brilliant, genius, successful person, but people think that way. Okay, sure. And also, if I was gonna go to the CEO of some big company and ask him, like, hey, you want to be my client? Or whatever, he’d just be like, get out of here. Another person’s selling me something. But if you come to him and I tell him, like, hey, I want to give you the opportunity to amplify your voice to an audience of listeners who are interested in this type of stuff is like, oh, cool, man.

Yitzy Hammer [00:46:29]:
Let’s do it. You know, like, no agenda. Like, just. Let’s just have, like, a. A fun conversation. And so, like, I. I’ve actually been able to get to a position where I have conversations with people. Maybe I shouldn’t be talking about this on air.

Yitzy Hammer [00:46:39]:
I don’t know. But I’ve been able to get to a position where I have conversations with people who would never otherwise, like, be willing to give me, like, two, like, two seconds in a conversation. And through that, we’ve actually, like, become friends. And I’ve been able to, you know, garner their trust and, like. And then some of them have become my clients, but not because initially they wouldn’t have even, like, been open to that idea. So I love that. I love all that.

Yarden Noy [00:47:06]:
So it’s not for the money. You don’t make money off it. But, yeah, network networking, generally, it’s a tool for networking. People know who Yitzy Hammer is. Right. He’s a person.

Kyle Lawrence [00:47:16]:
It’s true.

Yarden Noy [00:47:16]:
And it’s. Then that is worth money.

Yitzy Hammer [00:47:20]:
And then there’s, like, one of the.

Yarden Noy [00:47:22]:
That’s why I pay him every month.

Yitzy Hammer [00:47:25]:
And then there’s the other aspect. Like, I love all the gadgets. Right? Like, there’s so much, like, fun stuff. Like, I know you guys are, like, in your early stages, but, like, Kyle, at some point, you got to get a new mic, man.

Kyle Lawrence [00:47:35]:
I know. It’s a. It’s a work in progress. I know It’s.

Yitzy Hammer [00:47:37]:
It’s just like, a couple hundred bucks. You gotta check this out now. Okay. I just got, like, leading up to the conference, like, I needed to have, like, a audio thing for, like, recording two people, which I didn’t have. And so, like, I could do all these, like, really cool voices here.

Yitzy Hammer [00:47:49]:
You see this? Can you hear me talking like this?

Moish Peltz [00:47:53]:
There you go.

Kyle Lawrence [00:47:56]:
That’s it. Due to the voiceover for the Sauron voice.

Yitzy Hammer [00:47:59]:
Yeah. So this is just, like, a lot of fun. Like, I love the whole thing, you know, and you can do all these, like, cool, like, sound effects anyways, so it’s important to have fun. You know what I’m saying?

Moish Peltz [00:48:11]:
I agree. And that’s all we do. We’re not doing it to make money. We’re doing it because it’s fun. You meet amazing people, like, and you.

Yitzy Hammer [00:48:17]:
Guys bring so much value to the space. Like, I listen to your. Your. I. I’m subscribed to very few channels. You guys are one of them. And, like, you guys bring, like, really, like, fun, engaging content. I love it.

Yitzy Hammer [00:48:30]:
Keep doing what you’re doing.

Moish Peltz [00:48:32]:
Thank you. We feel the same way. So keep. Keep it up. I. I know that. That you guys got to run soon, so I think we’ll. We’ll wrap it here.

Moish Peltz [00:48:41]:
But really appreciate you guys coming on. Really appreciate everything you guys do in the space and. And all the things that we’ve been able to collaborate on. And. Yeah, let’s. We’ll have to have you on again. And. Or.

Moish Peltz [00:48:51]:
Or maybe we’ll see you. And I think what we’ll do is we’ll do a live podcast.

Kyle Lawrence [00:48:55]:
Yeah.

Moish Peltz [00:48:56]:
At one of the events that I know.

Kyle Lawrence [00:48:57]:
We’re both Vegas.

Yitzy Hammer [00:49:00]:
Yeah. We can do it together.

Kyle Lawrence [00:49:01]:
Let’s do it.

Yitzy Hammer [00:49:02]:
Co host. That could be fun.

Moish Peltz [00:49:03]:
Co host.

Yitzy Hammer [00:49:04]:
Yeah.

Yarden Noy [00:49:05]:
Vegas. Gentlemen.

Kyle Lawrence [00:49:06]:
I love what’s happening here.

Yarden Noy [00:49:10]:
All right, guys, I told you before, before we went live, I told you we do business on air. That’s the way we roll. Now, you cannot take. Shaun can edit it out, but.

Kyle Lawrence [00:49:22]:
Block and Order goes on below.

Moish Peltz [00:49:23]:
We’re gonna go like, Yitzy this. This episode will be released, you know, live as. As completed. Just the way that Yitzy does it .

Yarden Noy [00:49:29]:
Makes it so much more fun.

Yarden Noy [00:49:34]:
Thank you so much, gentlemen, for having us.

Kyle Lawrence [00:49:34]:
Thank you guys. Good seeing you. Take care of yourselves.

Yitzy Hammer [00:49:37]:
Thanks, guys.

Kyle Lawrence [00:49:39]:
Well, that wraps up this edition of Block and Order. A huge thank you to Yitzy and Yarden for joining us. It’s a little later in their day and you know, they were. They were already on cocktail hour, which, which I was very jealous of, but very spirited discussion. Always good to see those guys, Moish, you know, you know, you know them better than I do, so I’m sure you feel the same. Just remember, everybody, nothing that you hear on this show, particularly this episode, is meant to be construed as legal or financial advice. Please consult your own attorney if you’re going to take the plunge. Any discussion of assets or cryptocurrencies on the course of the show is not meant to be construed as an endorsement of said assets.

Kyle Lawrence [00:50:14]:
Very special thank you to producer Shaun. Without him, the show would not be possible. Please don’t forget to like and subscribe. Follow us on our socials. The links are down below in the show notes. On behalf of Moish Peltz, I’m Kyle Lawrence. Thanks everybody.

Moish Peltz [00:50:27]:
Take care.